Where is the difference?

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Shadowhntr
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:47 pm

Where is the difference?

#1 Post by Shadowhntr »

I read all the time, how carbons or even sometimes woods, are more difficult to tune then one or all the other material types. I'm not saying it isn't so.... because ive only tuned 2 batches of carbons now and partook in another set that wasn't mine. However in both cases, I cant tell any difference in the generalized steps of tuning, or in the results. To me it's always been the same....pick a starting weight head and shaft that is close to fitting that and your needs. Start with a full length shaft and shoot. Hopefully it's at least flying straight or a bit weak. Then if weak begin trimming a little at a time off until she is flying straight. It's the same for me no matter the material type. I've had mostly great luck with every material type I've used. Now and then I've had to struggle with both wood and aluminum for a particular set up...I suspect I'll eventually struggle with carbon at some time. I'm just not understanding how one material can be more difficult to tune when its all the same process. If you have a bad release... all 3 types will fly wonky. Where is the difference? Please enlighten me if you know the answer to this mystery?
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Captainkirk
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Re: Where is the difference?

#2 Post by Captainkirk »

The major difference I've experienced lies in the inserts for carbons. Different weights, different lengths, and they can be a major PITA to remove once glued in place. Woods (and in the past, aluminums) are more straightforward; fewer options. It works or it doesn't.
Aim small, miss small!

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Shadowhntr
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Re: Where is the difference?

#3 Post by Shadowhntr »

Captainkirk wrote:The major difference I've experienced lies in the inserts for carbons. Different weights, different lengths, and they can be a major PITA to remove once glued in place. Woods (and in the past, aluminums) are more straightforward; fewer options. It works or it doesn't.
Ok I get that. I tend to tune the arrow to a certain head end weight and set up, so to play devil's advocate, even if there are a myriad of choices I'd think a person would know ahead of time what you wanted to use? Such as...my first set up I used an insert/adapter combo so I could use glue on heads. I wanted to be at 400gr head with 300gr being my tuffhead. So I chose the 100gr insert/adapter combo and added a carbon collar for extra protection. To tune, I simply used the same hot melt as I do for woods. Like normal id shoot bare shaft, (weak) heat end until it came free, cut the shaft 1/4" at a time until I had a straight flying arrow. Granted I had to do some thinking and knowing what is available to decide what to use in the first place...but it's all simple just a bit time consuming.

I followed the same principle with helping Jim only HE did the figuring of what he wanted. Lol!

On this recent batch, I was forced to use a different type set up because of lack of availability. No insert/adapter combo the weight I needed. I wanted to hit 600-625 gr arrow so I knew I had to use a lighter shaft then GTs to begin with and I chose Beman Hunters. I picked a 100gr brass insert, and a steel 75gr screw in adapter, plus a carbon collar (5.6gr) and a 190gr Cutthroat broadhead/field tip. I temporarily hot glued it all in place, and it shot perfectly full length at 31" ...which happens to also be the same length as the GTs...and both are .500 spine. There is only 35gr difference in head weight between the two. I've found carbon to cover a wider range as to what head weights it handles per spine jumps, so it makes sense to me. In any case, even using various components the carbon seems to tune pretty easily really. I think woods and aluminums tune pretty easily to though.

Once the arrow is figured and tuned, you have a point about not being able to change it up easily when considering the inserts. So far ive cleaned and roughed up the surfaces on each attempt to glue inserts. The quick stick hot melt worked...for a little while. Once I hit something hard a time or two it let go and I lost everything. So I tried Gorilla 2 part epoxy. It worked!...for a while. :( Lasted longer then hot melt but it still let go...ive lost 6 of 7 ends in my bale with it. After doing some research, I found JB Weld to be the ticket. Since using it, I've not lost anything no matter the instance. The problem is..like you stated...you cannot get them back out. Idk why I would want to since they are tuned and flying outstandingly well...but that factor is there.

However, as far as the tuning process goes...Id never use a permanent epoxy...thats crazy. Hot melt for a temporary fixation and easy on easy off, until its tuned. With that, it's really no different then other materials. A person may not prefer carbon for a number of reasons, but that should have no bearing on tuning it.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.

Crazynate
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Re: Where is the difference?

#4 Post by Crazynate »

In my experience carbons stiffen up way faster when I cut them compared to aluminum arrows. When I tune a new bow with carbons I cut off only 1/4" @ a time. When I'm do aluminums I feel comfortable taking an inch at a time. I also think guys get frustrated with carbons because sometimes they don't take into consideration the thinner diameters. But like you say in general if you take you time it really isn't a big deal compared to aluminums and wood.
Goodnight Chesty Wherever You Are.

Longtrad
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Re: Where is the difference?

#5 Post by Longtrad »

I often see people say aluminums don't tune well with heavy tip weight as they do t recover from paradox as fast as carbons... beats I don't really have any experience with aluminum shafting myself

I use longer 22 grain aluminum inserts in my carbons and shorter 100 grain inserts and haven't had any tuning issues yet

Longtrad
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Re: Where is the difference?

#6 Post by Longtrad »

Something else I was thinking about last night has to do with a single bamboo arrow I have. It flies great out of several different bows, I wonder if it has to do with the natural taper, but that homely looking thing just wants to fly.

Carpdaddy
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Re: Where is the difference?

#7 Post by Carpdaddy »

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer so I struggle equally with whatever I'm using. I would think that the process is the same even though one may allow you to make bigger steps.?

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