Woodie spine question
Forum rules
This area strictly for arrows. Building, flight or broadhead flight.
This area strictly for arrows. Building, flight or broadhead flight.
-
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:41 am
Woodie spine question
I had a gentleman on another forum tell me that he would bet archers could not tell the difference in 5-10# of wood arrow spine. I do not have enough experience in this area, so I cannot make an educated decision on whether this is true or not. I don't shoot woodies past about 35 yards. I shoot my carbon arrows out to 80 yards. I suspect I could tell a difference of 5-10# of spine deflection in carbon arrows but that's a complete guess on my part. That said, I am not sure I could tell a difference between 5-10# of spine deflection with woodies out to 35 yards. Can archers tell a difference of 10# of spine in woodies?
- Shadowhntr
- Posts: 4614
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:47 pm
Re: Woodie spine question
I think it's going to depend on the tuning of the starting arrow we're going to compare to....and if bare shaft testing or testing fletched. Fletched, it will be harder to tell for some people...but I still know when I'm slightly stiff or weak, and when the arrow is dialed in at least very close. Center cut risers have a wider spine tolerance range then do those non center cut risers.....so it's a broad statement to make to begin with all the variants involved and seeing all the subjective things such as personal talents and experience.
If the starting arrow was tuned not quite to, but bordering stiff....and with all else equal, and the comparison arrow 10lbs more to the stiff side....I can promise you I'm gonna know it with a non center cut bow like my Maddog and very very likely to know with the center cut Toelke.
The same goes the other way around on the weak side. 5lbs spine??? maybe not....
If the start arrow was borderline weak, all else being equal, and the comparison arrow 10lbs heavier spine?...its going to be less noticable to many shooters. However those who have a good release, and a good amount of tuning experience then they will still be able to tell. Again, much easier to tell with a non center cut riser then a center cut one.
It boils down to specifics, and each person's ability to tune and shoot.....so I think someone making that statement probably could use a healthy dose of real experience. Just because they can't tell does not mean someone else cannot.
I can tell you, on average you will see a 1" length change going from one spine bracket to the next.....I personally KNOW if my arrows have an inch of tuning left to do yet on them to bring them in. Think about that a second.
If the starting arrow was tuned not quite to, but bordering stiff....and with all else equal, and the comparison arrow 10lbs more to the stiff side....I can promise you I'm gonna know it with a non center cut bow like my Maddog and very very likely to know with the center cut Toelke.
The same goes the other way around on the weak side. 5lbs spine??? maybe not....
If the start arrow was borderline weak, all else being equal, and the comparison arrow 10lbs heavier spine?...its going to be less noticable to many shooters. However those who have a good release, and a good amount of tuning experience then they will still be able to tell. Again, much easier to tell with a non center cut riser then a center cut one.
It boils down to specifics, and each person's ability to tune and shoot.....so I think someone making that statement probably could use a healthy dose of real experience. Just because they can't tell does not mean someone else cannot.
I can tell you, on average you will see a 1" length change going from one spine bracket to the next.....I personally KNOW if my arrows have an inch of tuning left to do yet on them to bring them in. Think about that a second.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.
Re: Woodie spine question
Just from my own observations I can not tell the difference in 5-10# of spine in wood arrows. I shoot only recurves though and they're all cut close to or at center. Maybe for longbows you would notice. I use 55# spine woodies out of all my bows 42-53#. But I can't say I shoot them past 30-40 yards very often.
Goodnight Chesty Wherever You Are.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12818
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:19 pm
Re: Woodie spine question
Agree with the above responses. I only shoot recurves as well and I doubt I could tell a 5# difference at all. The example I listed elsewhere with shooting 2216's out of a 35# glass bow...all I knew is they hit where I was looking, not that they were probably 25# heavy on the spine.
Aim small, miss small!
- Shadowhntr
- Posts: 4614
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:47 pm
Re: Woodie spine question
Strap on a 2 blade broadhead and I'd bet you'd notice some flight problems! Or peel them fletchings off and back up to 15 yards and let them fly.....you are going to see problems then also.Captainkirk wrote:Agree with the above responses. I only shoot recurves as well and I doubt I could tell a 5# difference at all. The example I listed elsewhere with shooting 2216's out of a 35# glass bow...all I knew is they hit where I was looking, not that they were probably 25# heavy on the spine.
Sometimes even poor flying arrows will still hit where we are looking. Using that alone is a poor way to judge arrow flight. Eventually, strapping on a broadhead , shooting very close, or bare shafting will reveal the problem. Even if our arrow strikes where we are looking, if the arrow had poor flight somewhere along its travel, emence energy is lost, killing our penetration.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 12818
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:19 pm
Re: Woodie spine question
No argument there, Jase. The fact that I was shooting field points and 5" feathers probably helped stabilization a bunch.
Aim small, miss small!
-
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:41 am
Re: Woodie spine question
Great stuff! Thx!Shadowhntr wrote:I think it's going to depend on the tuning of the starting arrow we're going to compare to....and if bare shaft testing or testing fletched. Fletched, it will be harder to tell for some people...but I still know when I'm slightly stiff or weak, and when the arrow is dialed in at least very close. Center cut risers have a wider spine tolerance range then do those non center cut risers.....so it's a broad statement to make to begin with all the variants involved and seeing all the subjective things such as personal talents and experience.
If the starting arrow was tuned not quite to, but bordering stiff....and with all else equal, and the comparison arrow 10lbs more to the stiff side....I can promise you I'm gonna know it with a non center cut bow like my Maddog and very very likely to know with the center cut Toelke.
The same goes the other way around on the weak side. 5lbs spine??? maybe not....
If the start arrow was borderline weak, all else being equal, and the comparison arrow 10lbs heavier spine?...its going to be less noticable to many shooters. However those who have a good release, and a good amount of tuning experience then they will still be able to tell. Again, much easier to tell with a non center cut riser then a center cut one.
It boils down to specifics, and each person's ability to tune and shoot.....so I think someone making that statement probably could use a healthy dose of real experience. Just because they can't tell does not mean someone else cannot.
I can tell you, on average you will see a 1" length change going from one spine bracket to the next.....I personally KNOW if my arrows have an inch of tuning left to do yet on them to bring them in. Think about that a second.
-
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:41 am
Re: Woodie spine question
Jason,Shadowhntr wrote:Strap on a 2 blade broadhead and I'd bet you'd notice some flight problems! Or peel them fletchings off and back up to 15 yards and let them fly.....you are going to see problems then also.Captainkirk wrote:Agree with the above responses. I only shoot recurves as well and I doubt I could tell a 5# difference at all. The example I listed elsewhere with shooting 2216's out of a 35# glass bow...all I knew is they hit where I was looking, not that they were probably 25# heavy on the spine.
Sometimes even poor flying arrows will still hit where we are looking. Using that alone is a poor way to judge arrow flight. Eventually, strapping on a broadhead , shooting very close, or bare shafting will reveal the problem. Even if our arrow strikes where we are looking, if the arrow had poor flight somewhere along its travel, emence energy is lost, killing our penetration.
Do you bare shaft tune wood arrows?
- Shadowhntr
- Posts: 4614
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:47 pm
Re: Woodie spine question
Yes,... I certainly do. I cannot even count the number I've tuned bare shaft brother.
The element of surprise can never be replaced by persistence.
Re: Woodie spine question
another method is to get a few fletched arrows with field tips and a few fletched arrows with broad heads (this also works with bare shafts and fletched field tips, put a strip of tape in the middle of of a piece of cardboard vertically and pin that to the front of your target, then aim to hit the tape, dont worry about shooting high or low, just try to keep the the arrows on "the line" of the tape. Mark the hits so you can tell what was a field tip and what was a broad head. After a session of shooting you should notice a pattern develop where most of the field tips will be on one side of the tape and most of the broad heads will be on the other side, this means there is still tuning to do. If they are both hitting in the middle and grouping together then you are decently tuned!