1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

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Grizzly
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#11 Post by Grizzly »

Those old commemoratives don't have the natural beauty of the long barrel originals, but they are still a joy to own and to "shoot". Maybe their biggest detraction is that they came "after" 1964 when Winchester began to change how everything was made - more efficient mfging and cheaper. None the less, during a match or during a shoot off especially, I loved to make my shot and then catch the brass out of the air and put the empty in my pocket. Those long barrels hold oh so steady. Most though opt for the carbines.
Jesus replaces the old covenant and speaks to the believer the moral code of God by His Spirit directly to the heart. He is the eternal, everlasting revelation of God to mankind. In Him is both the knowledge of righteousness and the power to live right.

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Shadowhntr
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#12 Post by Shadowhntr »

What sweethearts! I Like the arms you've aquired super nice!

What is/was the .380?
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Grizzly
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#13 Post by Grizzly »

Thanks. I hope to pick up the .44 Special today.

Having shot many bowling pin matches years ago, I noticed in a gun shop that when I brought a certain striker fired 9mm up from the low ready to firing that I was pressing the trigger on the way up. When I heard that click before the sights were on target, I realized I'd better stay away from striker fired handguns. It's strange that I never had that problem with a 1911 or a Ruger MK2, but none the less, I took it as a warning. At 71 I don't think I want to risk that on a carry gun. My 9mm is also a Sig P250sc double action only. I have no problem at all with revolvers or double action. Bowling pin matches helped me to learn to trust and enjoy shooting double action.

Because of that risk of pressing the trigger, I avoided the Ruger LCP2, which is a fine firearm, but it has a really nice trigger that may be too light for me, as a carry gun. I like the features of the S&W Bodyguard .380, but it would have cost me way over $100. to modify one the way I'd like. So I started looking for a Ruger LCP Custom with the higher sights. Ruger discontinued them, but I found a nice one at a gun show, bought it, and really like it. It shoots to the sights very accurately and controllably with just the additions of a Hogue gripper to thicken the grip a bit; and is so easy to have with you at all times.
Jesus replaces the old covenant and speaks to the believer the moral code of God by His Spirit directly to the heart. He is the eternal, everlasting revelation of God to mankind. In Him is both the knowledge of righteousness and the power to live right.

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White Falcon
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#14 Post by White Falcon »

That is a special gun.

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Grizzly
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#15 Post by Grizzly »

If you have never had one of these Charter Arms Bulldogs before, there are a few things you and I need to know before you scratch that itch.

As Ruger seems to be the "heavy", over build choice when looking for a firearm, Smith & Wesson is the middle ground, average, normal comfortable, well built firearm we may all be accustomed to. On the light, just enough to function, built to keep the cost down, don't shoot it to death side is the Charter Arms Bulldog.

You have to know this going in or you will be terribly dissapointed somewhere along the line. The Charter Arms .38s can get away with more shooting, and still remain tight, but these Bulldogs will shoot the screws and pins loose after maybe two boxes of shells and if you try to load up some +P rounds, you will shoot the whole frame and structure loose.

If you can live with this, you'll probably be among a happy group who love their old Bulldogs.

I'm still learning this and was a bit disappointing when I picked it up last night. The cylinder flopped around like it was falling apart, and after I figured out what was wrong with that, I noticed a pin that secures the front of the frame to the lower grip frame sticking out. At this point, I was wondering if I should call paypal and reverse the whole transaction.

After Church, I got on the search engines and began to get even more educated on this model. Most of what I wrote above became clear as I began to tighten things up. I really can't imagine anyone offering this firearm for sale and calling it to be in excellent shape, being so loose. It's no wonder he was buying something else and selling this one.

The loose screw is what tightens into the front of the frame and holds the cylinder yoke in place. Snug it up and all is well. Until you shoot (and I'll have to find out what that number of shells actually is) a box or two and have to tighten it again. It is said you can loc-tite it down, but it will still need to be watched. I can live with that. This is not a range toy, but something that carries comfortably, feels good in the hand, still has the old style bluing that you can't find on newer guns and has a 3" barrel which I really like.

I then watched closely on utube as one was disassembled and re-assembled, paying close attention to those pins. They had to be coaxed out with a smack to a punch. Then later, they are put in by hand to where they look like they are in place and then tapped in with another smack to a punch. I did that to mine and could no longer push it out with my fingers.

I have a feeling that these also tend to shoot loose. If you can live with this, and remember these need more care and maintenance and have to be checked more carefully than other guns after a range session and cleaning, you will enjoy it.

Which brings up the next big "if". I'll take this little 19 ounce .44 special to the range today or tomorrow and see if I can really "enjoy" or even "tolerate" one of these lightweight beauties launching a 200, 240 or 246 grain chunk of lead at anywhere from 650 to 900 fps. It came with those little wood splinter grips. Pretty, and conceal nicely, but I'm not about to try my first shots with them on. I found some rubber Charter Arms grips in a used box at the gun shop for $10. I'll use them until and if I find some Pachmyer Compacs.

I'm not sure if I want to try the Underwood full wadcutter 200 grain loads that are advertised at 1000 fps just yet. Well, maybe one. I hear the Silvertips are alot easier on you.
This came with 5 different boxes of assorted ammo. Hopefully by this evening or tomorrow morning, my hand will stop tingling. :oops: :oops:
Jesus replaces the old covenant and speaks to the believer the moral code of God by His Spirit directly to the heart. He is the eternal, everlasting revelation of God to mankind. In Him is both the knowledge of righteousness and the power to live right.

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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#16 Post by Captainkirk »

Good luck with your Bulldog. I shot one back when I worked PT for the gun shop. It was brutal with Remington 200gr FN ammo. Brutal.
That was the main reason I decided to go with my Super Blackhawk.
The Pachmayrs might help, but there's not much metal there to absorb the recoil.
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Grizzly
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#17 Post by Grizzly »

As I was reading old threads almost everywhere on this Bulldog before and after I committed to it, I read one comment more than once that seemed to make no sense to me. They said that this gun was more accurate on double action than single action. As I reviewed my targets from yesterday, I too noticed that, and it is very strange.

When I shot single action and tried to see where poi was, it was very awkward. This is not range toy. It is hard to get a comfortable shooting position. At the indoor range, I had no rest, just a wall to lean against or a box to rest on. Most all groups were about 1" left of poa. I wasn't very happy with that. Also, 200 gr loads were 1" low, 240 gr loads with a decent charge, but still a std load were 1" high. The slow moving 246gr were centered, and all were about 1" left. I'm hoping my 215 cast loads will be close to centered on elevation. Now, when I shot double action, the groups opened a bit, but all clustered around the center of the target. The last three shots I fired were in rapid succession, and I was very comfortable and pleased with where they hit. go figure. This thing might shoot tight groups from a sandbag rest in single action, but trying to lean against something is awkward because I think you're leary of drawing blood as you bounce off anything close.

I wouldn't call it brutal with standard saami spec loads. If I bumped them up to stage two or +P I'd probably agree. But I don't want to shoot this thing loose as I've seen +P do to the nice old pinned barrel Smith & Wesson all steel model 36's

This is not a gun I'd recommend to anyone either. You have to be crazy enough on your own to want one of these things. I love 3" barrels and blue steel. This one has a nice rich blue finish (for a Charter Arms) without the typical purple/blue haze that many have. There is just an ever so small noticeable amount of that. If I had any sense at all, I would have bought one of the police trade in Smith 640 all stainless 2 1/8" .357's - for less money. If they had exposed hammers, I know i would have. The little revolver I really wanted was a Smith model 60-10 with a 3" barrel and adj sights in all stainless. They don't do one in rich blue. I'm not sure anyone does.
Jesus replaces the old covenant and speaks to the believer the moral code of God by His Spirit directly to the heart. He is the eternal, everlasting revelation of God to mankind. In Him is both the knowledge of righteousness and the power to live right.

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Grizzly
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#18 Post by Grizzly »

Well, Charter Arms has my Bulldog for the second time. No complaints yet, I'm satisfied with their work, but now we are trying to get point of aim to be the same as point of impact. It still shoots and inch left up close at 5 yards and it spreads to almost 3" left at 15 yards. It can hold a nice group and The recoil really isn't as bad as it's reputation unless you feed it warm to hot loads. With target loads like 4.6 to 5.0 grains of Bullseye powder and a 215 gr SWC, it is almost pleasant to shoot. I spotted my old Ideal hand press in the basement and brought it, the scale and powder measure up to my desk. Pretty handy. Easy to whip up a box of reloads here at my desk. I found this tool and 38/357 dies in a box under a shelf at a lgs. Bought it real cheap in the '80s. Later I spotted some 44mag/spc dies and grabbed them also. Pretty handy at times when you don't want to use the bench presses.
Charter called today and we discussed zeroing the Bulldog in. The first time a tech filed a little off the left side of the front sight. That didn't do much. This tech will begin by checking to see if the front sight is aligned to the barrel and frame square. Then he will check to see if the barrel was rifled straight or off center. Then, if that is good, he'll use the targets I sent him along with how it shoots for him and file the front sight more. The don't like to open up the rear. I told him I was worried that if it needed a new barrel that I'd probably wind up with the finish they use today. But, he said, no, they can match the bluing in shop. I said, "Bless your heart". :D Then I asked if, while he searched to find another 3" barrel, if he could look to see if an older set of the larger wood Bulldog grips were gathering dust. He agreed and sounded like they just might have some. "Hotdog".

It would be hard not to be pleased with Charter Arms Service. The first time they had it, the pin that had worked loose was replaced with a new design and they smoothed up the tirgger pull for me. Still no Smith and Wesson K frame, but much better. They also included a few extreemly thin nylon washers that they now put under the head of the screw that secures the cylinder crane. They even through in an older rubber grip to absorb recoil better than those in the photos. I had to pay $49.99 since the company changed hands a few times and mine was made in 1984, while the first company still owned the business. I'm good with that and glad they are this good about servicing them. Since they are still trying to get it right, they sent me a bow with prepaid shipping. I wouldn't be afraid to buy another handgun from them but at my age, probably wont ;)

What is interesting about these two targets is what happens when your grips are a little too wide and large for you. The top target is single action, slow fire where your grip placement is not so critical since you are resting on something. You usually get the handgun to shoot straight. Now when the grips are too wide, as the Pachmyer Compacs are, and my tirgger finger wont reach all the way into the first crease unless my hand moves around the gun some, you see how that tends to pull the shots to the right. Which, in this case brings them on target better. Do I want to live with that? I decided no, I'd rather use the thinner Charter rubber grips and trust that point of impact will be the same double action and slow aimed fire in single action. Now it's up to the service department.
Target 1.jpg
Target 1.jpg (51.17 KiB) Viewed 145 times

Target 2.jpg
Target 2.jpg (72.66 KiB) Viewed 145 times
Jesus replaces the old covenant and speaks to the believer the moral code of God by His Spirit directly to the heart. He is the eternal, everlasting revelation of God to mankind. In Him is both the knowledge of righteousness and the power to live right.

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White Falcon
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#19 Post by White Falcon »

Does that say 5 ft.?

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Grizzly
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Re: 1st Generation Bulldog .44 Special

#20 Post by Grizzly »

No, 5 yards. I' sure hope that when I get it back this time it will group in the black on single action and double action.
At 7, 10 and 15 yards, the groups move left more and more. 1" left at 5 yards and 3" left at 15 yards.

This .44 Special only weighs 19 ounces. A pleasure to carry for sure. For double action you have to get your grip figured out, just like on a bow so the you don't pull your shots. You read about many folks who pull their shots on da.

Another reason that I like a 3" revolver over the 2" is that they stay put much better if you use inside the pants carry. That extra inch seems to stabilize the gun better and makes it less prone to work it's way up and out of your belt line when you are getting up and down alot or in and out of a car.
Jesus replaces the old covenant and speaks to the believer the moral code of God by His Spirit directly to the heart. He is the eternal, everlasting revelation of God to mankind. In Him is both the knowledge of righteousness and the power to live right.

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